Pokies interview transcripts

774 ABC Melbourne - interview with Jon Faine discussing my anti-pokies, pro-immigration Senate tilt, July 23, 2010.

Jon Faine: Stephen Mayne, shareholder activist and occasional contributor to 774 ABC Melbourne programs, has overnight announced that he wants to be a senator. In fact, in a campaign that in some ways seems to be modelled on the South Australian anti-pokies senator Nick Xenophon, Stephen Mayne says, “Vote for me!” Stephen Mayne, good morning to you.

Stephen Mayne: Hi Jon.

Jon Faine: It's not the first time you've tried to run for parliament, is it?

Stephen Mayne: Well, it's the first time for the Senate… so I'm keen to try and leverage the pokies issue. I've been on that issue for 4 or 5 years and nothing really much has changed, we're still the world's biggest gamblers so… I'm going to use the democratic processes to try and leverage something out of the major parties to get some change.

Jon Faine: You've been one of the most unsuccessful political candidates that I can think of, and for public office and corporate office as well, so why do you think this time it will be any different?

Stephen Mayne: Well I think there's a lot of community concern about the pokies, I mean we lose $3 billion a year, Julia Gillard in her own seat has the biggest pokies venue in the state where punters lose $20 million a year, and the Labor Party itself runs four pokies venues in Canberra. They are the only major political party in the world which runs pokies venues. And the Liberal Party, for the Senate, are putting up a pokies operator in Julian McGauran. So -

Jon Faine: His family business, in which he has an interest, owns pokies -

Stephen Mayne: His family business, in Julia Gillard's suburb of Altona. His family owns the Miller Inn, where punters lose $14 million a year. So it is so entrenched in Australia that you've got the government party running their own venues, you've got the alternative government putting up a pokies operator as well, we're the world's biggest gamblers… it's an absolute scourge on society and, you know, Nick Xenophon's a real hero of mine, he's done a great job in raising this issue -

Jon Faine: So you're forming, like a party, an alliance between the two of you, if you get in?

Stephen Mayne: Look, he's a hero of mine but he's fiercely independent, I'm independent. So look, there's no group, he's not running my campaign or endorsing me, but… I've known him for a long time, I think what he does is fantastic and I'm keen to support him. I hope he can support me in this campaign and I really want to try and leverage an outcome on the pokies, because the Productivity Commission recommended all these great things and Rudd absolutely wimped it, even though he said he hates the pokies, and we're still yet to hear from Gillard. So I'm simply saying: “Julia, what's your pokies policy? My preferences are up for grabs; the Senate outcome will be influenced by what you decide on this.” I'm confident I can get two or three per cent, I've beaten the Democrats, I've beaten Family First, I've beaten the DLP in the past in elections, so I think I can the determinant of the last spot.

Jon Faine: Do you really seriously think you'll get elected?

Stephen Mayne: I don't think I'll get elected, but I think that my preferences will decide who wins the sixth spot, I've no doubt about that, and I will directing my preferences based on which party makes the strongest moves on pokies and the starter for the ALP is to commit to sell their four pokies venues that they operate in Canberra… which they tried to do earlier this year. But then the factional hacks stepped in and said, don't sell them to the CFMEU. So they're still running four hundred machines themselves to help fund this campaign.

Jon Faine: Are you a single issue candidate?

Stephen Mayne: Well, primarily. I mean the pokies is my number one issue in this campaign. I'm also appalled at the anti-immigration position which is being put up by both parties. I know that's incredibly… it's not going to win you any votes, coming out and saying I'm for immigration, but I think -

Jon Faine: Why not?

Stephen Mayne: Well… I'm saying it. It's not popular, but I think we should support immigration; I think that the race to the bottom we're seeing from the major parties is a disgrace.

Jon Faine: It's astonishing that the failure of state governments to be able to effectively construct infrastructure is being blamed, and therefore used as a reason, to cut the essential immigration we need to create a sustainable economic base for the future.

Stephen Mayne: Look, I agree. I'm a councillor in the City of Manningham, we're the only council in the whole state without rail or tram, we've got four thousand six hundred septic tanks. If the state government can't even put the sewer through, can't even get a tram extension from North Balwyn to Manningham, and then the same party comes out and blames immigration. I just think it's appalling and it poisons the well, it damages our multicultural community. All those migrants out there who expect the Labor Party to stand up for them, are being sold out by the cynical factional hacks. I think I'm happy to stand up and say I'm proud to support more immigration for Australia.

Jon Faine: Couple of quick text messages for you; one saying “I'll vote for you Stephen,” another saying, “You have an addiction, it's not to pokies but to trying to be a public figure.”

Stephen Mayne: Well I am a public figure. I'm an elected councillor, I'm a shareholder activist, that's what I do. This is democracy and I'm engaging with the democratic processes. I'm going to try and leverage an outcome on the pokies.

Jon Faine: Good luck, we'll keep in touch on it I'm sure, and see whether or not you make any progress. Thaks for coming in today.

Stephen Mayne: Thanks Jon.

Jon Faine: Stephen Mayne, occasionally called a serial pest but no, he's just a serial candidate.


ABC News Radio - interview with Steve Chase talking about my anti-pokies, pro-immigration Senate tilt, July 23, 2010.

Steve Chase: well taking a stand against poker machines has proved to be fertile political ground for the South Australian MP turned senator, Nick Xenophon. Now shareholder activist and former Liberal staffer Stephen Mayne hopes to repeat the Xenophon phenomenon in Victoria. He's decided to run for a senate seat on an anti-gambling platform.

Stephen Mayne started the crikey.com website and has previously run for state and federal seats. He says he will direct preferences to whichever party declares the toughest action against poker machines.

Stephen Mayne joins us now, Stephen Mayne why are you standing?

Stephen Mayne: well Australians are the world's biggest gamblers per capita. Victorians lose close to $3b a year on the pokies. We've had a productivity commission report with sweeping recommendations, and the Rudd-Gillard government is basically twiddling their thumbs - doing nothing.

So I'm attempting to leverage up through the election, highlight the issue, the community hates the pokies. We all know, there's hundreds of thousands of problem gamblers out there and 40% of all losses come from problem gamblers, the damage is enormous, and I've had enough as many other people have, so I said that's it - I'm running, and I'm negotiating preferences based-on who'll take some serious action.

Steve Chase: It seems as though you are modeling very closely your campaign on that of Nick Xenophon who was a state MP, then went federal. A phenomenal 14% of South Australians apparently voted for him in the last election, I do believe. Are you certain, or are you hoping you can get anywhere near that number in Victoria?

Stephen Mayne: Nick's a friend of mine, he's a bit of a hero of mine, I was talking on the phone with him just an hour ago, look he's one-of-a-kind. It would be impossible to repeat his performance. He's a phenomenal politician, but people hate the pokies. He got on that issue and has achieved an enormous amount, although I know he was desperately disappointed with what Kevin Rudd announced. We haven't heard what Julia Gillard yet and what she is doing with the pokies, and we've had some new statistics actually come out today, showing that within her own electorate of Lalor, is the largest loss-making pokies venue in Victoria - the Werribee Tavern Hotel. Where $19.2m lost in the last financial year, figures just out today.

What does Julia Gillard think about representing an electorate with that sort of venue there, run by Woolworths. We've got to get some answers. Nick and I are working together to try and get some answers through this election.

Steve Chase: well the cynical riposte to what you've just said there, you've declared that everyone hates the pokies, if everybody hates them, then why are they so popular?

Stephen Mayne: well the state governments are addicted to the revenue.

Steve Chase: yeah, but people still have to put coins in the slot.

Stephen Mayne: well they do, but that's because they're available on every street corner. I mean Victoria has the most lethal pokies in Australia. A typical pokie in Victoria, people lose $100,000 a year on that poker machine, and the productivity commission is saying limit the maximum bet to $1, but the Rudd-Gillard government is refusing to do that.

Have pre-commitment where you can only commit to spend a maximum amount when you go in there. The Rudd-Gillard government is crawling along to that at absolute snails pace. The state governments are addicted to the revenue, the federal government is the answer. They've got the recommendations from the productivity commission, they have just got to spend some money.

If you can buy-back gun licenses, if you can buy back water licenses, you can buy-back pokies licenses, and now is the time to do that.

Steve Chase: but surely you know the history of a federal government bulldozing a state government, running over the top of them on issues like poker machines, you talk about water buy-backs etc, the state governments by-and-large are pretty, I suppose, tame when it comes to doing things like what you're advocating.

Stephen Mayne: Well there are no pokies in WA, except for in the casino and they're fairly limited pokies. You can't lose that much money on them. So if WA can get by without them...I mean the Labor party hates them. You often hear Labor people say it causes so much damage, but they're just addicted to the revenue. The other problem I guess with Labor is, the Labor party itself, is running 4 poker machine venues in Canberra, through the Canberra Labor Club network.

So you do have this weird thing where the Labor party itself, is the only major political party in the world, which is actually running a gambling operation to fund raise for its political campaigning. So I met the third senate Labor candidate today, Anthony Fowle in Victoria, and I said mate if you want the preferences, I need a statement in public that you will be selling those 4 clubs and the Labor party will be getting out of the pokies industry. If you don't want the preferences, you can keep running that industry.

Steve Chase: So at this stage, i know that preferences haven't been allocated, and you've alluded to the fact that negotiations are still going on, but who will you not be giving your preferences to, and who will you be giving your preferences to?

Can you broadly state that at this time?

Stephen Mayne: Well clearly the two majors would be down near the bottom. The third Liberal candidate is Julian McGauran, and his family owns a poker machine venue just 4kms down the road from where Julia Gillard lives in Altona, and the new figures out today show at that venue, punters lost $12.2m last year.

So the Liberal party are putting up a bloke that runs his own pokies venue. The Labor party runs 4 of their own, so clearly I'll be first looking toward some of the minor parties, but at the end of the day you have to make a decision with your preferences about Liberal or Labor, and that's where I'm simply seeking some commitment.

Look I'm talking to everyone. I've had chats with Family First, DLP, the Greens, and I'm casting around for the best anti-pokies policy, but at the end of the day, we need a decision from the majors, because the preferences will finish up going to one of the two majors, so which is interested in taking decisive action, at last, on the pokies as the productivity commission so strongly recommends.

Steve Chase: What you're advocating here, is it a Trojan horse? Somebody with a background like yours - a former Liberal party staffer, shareholder activist, there must be other issues that you want to get into parliament and campaign on?

Stephen Mayne: There are other issues. I've been desperately disappointed with the race to the bottom on immigration. I mean I'm a great supporter of multiculturalism and all that immigration has done for Australia, so that was the other issue that got me motivated. I mean there's obviously corporate governance issues, but I've spent 5 years on the pokies - we've got nowhere.

I've run for the boards of pokies companies such as Woolworths, and I've looked at senator Xenophon and the effective way that he has gone about it, and I simply said that this is the most potent way to try elevate the issues so the pokies is the prime reason I'm running.

Steve Chase: and what do you think of this announcement today by Julia Gillard on climate change?

Stephen Mayne: well I'm an old Liberal who believes in climate change, so I hate Tony Abbott's climate changes crap stuff, but Gillard is just wimping it. It's just pathetic that she is setting up all these advisory groups and sh's delaying. I mean carbon is a poison - it should be taxed. It really is just pathetic what the two majors have done, so I'm certainly sympathetic to the Greens when it comes to climate change, and desperately disappointed with the sort of the no-action response by Julia Gillard today.

Steve Chase: Stephen Mayne, thanks for sharing your views today.

Stephen Mayne: Thanks Steve.

Steve Chase: That's Stephen Mayne. He is the shareholder activist, founded the crikey.com website and is now standing in Victoria for the senate, on ostensibly, a no pokies platform.


ABC regional - talking pokies and the senate tilt on July 27, 2010.

Kathy Bedford: How many times now have you run?

Stephen Mayne: I think it is probably number 6. I've run for local council but I've never run for the senate before, so keen to do well.

Kathy Bedford: So you're not getting a bit sick and tired of it? What about the cost? What does your wife say?

Stephen Mayne: Well she has given me a leave pass to contest a first ever senate election and she agrees with me on the pokies, and she is actually my running mate and is down at the electoral office right now submitting the forms, so she's alright.

Kathy Bedford: Keeping it all in the family. Now are you just jumping on a bandwagon here looking for a bit of a political issue to run or is this something that you've been campaigning before now?

Stephen Mayne: I've been on poker machines for about 5 years now. I've run for the Woolworths board, the Tabcorp board on poker machine issues. I ran in the last state election on a poker machine platform and I was elected to my local council in Melbourne's East in Manningham, on an anti-poker machine platform, so I've been consistent for a long time.

Nick Xenophon is a real hero of mine, I really admire what he has done and he's helping me out with my campaign and I agree with him. To get poker machine reform, Canberra has to spend money compensating the states, so the states can get rid of their addiction to the revenue.

Kathy Bedford: As you mentioned, Nick Xenophon, he was elected of cousre on the same platform, has he achieved anything in South Australia?

Stephen Mayne: Well in South Australia there has certainly been a reduction in some machines, but he made the point that we had to get federal. The productivity report was commissioned, and he was very helpful something would happen from that, and then Kevin Rudd wimped it because of the political power of the hotels lobby and clubs NSW.

The productivity commission recommended these great reforms, most notably a $1 maximum bet, and Kevin Rudd wimped it. So I'm running on a platform, to put pressure on both the Liberals and Julia Gillard to come out and commit to the $1 maximum bet as recommended by the productivity commission.

Kathy Bedford: What's the maximum bet now?

Stephen Mayne: Well in Victoria it is $5 and the Brumby government thinks they're terrific because they cut it from $10 to $5, but Victorians still lost $2.6b last year, we still are the world's biggest gamblers, and it's bizzar that we can have the world's safest roads, the world's lowest smoking rate, yet when it comes to gambling we are the world's worst, because the state governments have got no money and they're addicted to the revenue. Clearly, the auditor-general's report today, shows that the whole mitigation measures to deal with problem gamblers isn't working.

Kathy Bedford: It's interesting because the state government in response to that auditor-general's report, they've put out a press release saying we welcome the report, they say that all this report shows is that problem gambling is a complex issue.

Stephen Mayne: Its alright to commit to spend $100m over 4 years, and claim to have the world's best problem gambling measures, but if you've got the world's most lethal poker machines, and we do lose $100,000 a year on every one of our poker machines, all 27,500, outside of crown, and the auditor-general has come out and said that the government should have dealt only with the gambler. They should have dealt more with the industry. They said the training was hopeless. Things like mandatory cheque payouts for over $1000 wasn't enforced.

There are a whole series of scathing criticsms. There weren't proper performance benchmarks, there were untested measures, so its all good to spend $100m, but the auditor-general said it hasn't worked, and you only fix the problem if you reduce the losses. Until the government says lets get the losses back to below $1b a year, rather than $2.6b, then you won't fix the problem, but Brumby is addicted to the revenue so he won't do serious measures such as $1 maximum bet.

Kathy Bedford: Well the state government claim they are national leaders on addressing problem gambling. Are they perhaps doing more than any other state?

Stephen Mayne: They probably are doing more than any other state, but we've got the most lethal machines in the country, and we've got the highest concentration of Woolworths/Bruce Mathieson machines and they are the biggest and most effective operators. They know how to get the punters back and to get them losing as much as possible, and it really is quite tragic.

I mean, 40% of revenue comes from Australia's 90,000 problem gamblers is what the productivity commission report said. So literally, 90,000 people are losing $4b a year. This has deluged misery down on families and communities. It's just the most regressive taxation system in the world. It's all concentrated in the poorer areas and enough is enough - something has got to happen.

Kathy Bedford: Stephen, to get elected you have got to do some preference deals. Have you had chats with say Family First or the Sex party, or have they sort of done a deal together today?

Stephen Mayne: I assume the Sex party and the Democrats will be going to the Greens, I've spoken to everyone, I haven't spoken to the Sex party, and I'm still waiting to hear back from both the Liberal and Labor parties in terms of their poker machine positions.

You've got the difficult position of the Liberal senate candidate Julian McGauran actually owns a poker machine venue near Julia Gillard's house, where punters lost $12m last year, and the Labor party runs 4 poker machine venues of their own in Canberra.

So if you are an anti-pokies candidate, your choice in the major parties is the poker machines party, or the poker machine candidate. So I am waiting for one of them to make a commitment to get out of the industry. Whether that is senator McGauran selling his pub or the Labor party selling their Canberra clubs, and whichever one commits to do that, will be getting my preferences.

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